I would love to be able to answer and have a discussion about this subject, but I’m afraid we’re going off topic, so I don’t think this is the right place to talk about it.
What makes the romance feel unbelievable for me, though, is the idea that Padme would ever fall in love with someone like that. Almost every time she and Anakin are on screen, there’s very little genuine attraction shown: It’s just Anakin obsessively ranting about his wet dreams, while Padme seems to be looking for the nearest exit at every possible moment. Them falling in love would be a lot more believable if one of them didn’t look physically repulsed by the other.
Let me tell you something: women are weird. They’re adept at hiding their true emotions and pretending they feel one way, when in reality they feel the exact opposite. I can assure you, I’ve witnessed women telling a man that they feel deeply bothered by their behavior, only to end up in a relationship with that same man. It happens in a lot of movies and TV shows as well. Women are fucking masterminds, they almost never say what they really want and what they really think. Men are the ones who directly say what they want, but women are not like that. They go around things, create hyperbolic speeches and often lie about their emotional state, because they want men to understand what they think, but without telling them directly. So, I don’t think there’s something weird or unbelievable about Padmé telling Anakin something but actually meaning something else. Besides, apart from the “It makes me feel uncomfortable” scene, I honestly don’t recall any other scene in which she seems repulsed by Anakin’s behaviour.
Also socially awkward nervous teenagers don’t speak in weird Shakespearean poetry.
The only scene where Anakin talks in a Shakespearean and refined way is the monologue scene in front of the fireplace. I totally agree about that specific case, and in fact I slightly trimmed the scene in my personal Attack of the Clones fan edit, to align it more with the rest of Anakin’s speeches through the rest of the movie. But other than that circumstance, I don’t remember Anakin talking in a Shakespearean way in any other scene.
The reason Episode II is the weakest prequel for me is that the love story between Anakin and Padme is supposed to be half of the focus of that movie and yet it’s almost completely unbelievable. The actors are TRYING their hardest to make the characters sound as good as possible but that damn Lucas directing just renders it impossible, resulting in some very cringe and even creepy scenes. Half the time, Anakin looks like an obsessive stalker rather than a lovestruck yet charming young man.
I honestly doubt that a virgin teenager, which is romantically illiterate and who’s filled with a lot of repressed sexual desires would act like a charming young man, it’s totally unrealistic. And I know that, because I had to deal with the same problems a lot of times during my teenage years. Lately I’ve been trying to improve myself and seem more self-confident, but believe me, it’s not easy when you don’t have experience. Also, sure, most women only find men who are self-confident attractive, but even if it’s hard to believe, there’s a small percentage of women who think insecure and awkward men are cute. Probably Padmé falls into this small category, so there’s nothing weird with that. Therefore, no, in my opinion there’s nothing unbelievable about the love story in Attack of the Clones, and I don’t think Anakin’s behavior is unbearable, because I’ve been in his place a lot of times. I know what it’s like to be in that kind of situation, I know what it’s like to be in love with someone and be incredibly awkward, so I’m able to put myself in Anakin’s shoes and to see the world with his eyes. I’m able to identify myself with him, therefore I don’t have a problem with the love story.
*They also tended to be diehard PT/SE apologists, which also fanned the flames of contempt.
This has kind of flipped around now. Fans who are the most ardent defenders of “George’s vision” usually hold disdain for the EU.
So I’m not the only one who noticed this…
I don’t like Qui-Gon. My problem isn’t so much with the character himself. Just the fact that he steals away character traits and importance that should have been given to Obi-Wan. Also, I think a lot of fans “oversell” him nowadays as being “the wisest Jedi.”
As I’ve posted a few times before, my biggest problem with Qui-Gon is that he acts the way a young eager Padawan would act, whilst Obi-Wan is very by-the-book and conservative despite being a novice. It’s like Lucas got the roles mixed up and went with it anyway.
To be honest, I actually like the idea of the master being more open-minded then the apprentice. It happened is some other movies as well, it’s not just a Star Wars thing. Besides, this makes things more compelling when it comes to Anakin’s fate.
Everyone has some degree of consciousness within the Force after death. The special Jedi training just gives them the added ability to manifest in the physical world. But basically everyone still exists in the netherworld, except for people who were completely consumed by the Dark Side (not even necessarily Dark Side users, but also people who were just consumed by selfish, negative emotions, like Tarkin or Jabba).
I think this is actually Canon. In fact, George Lucas said multiple times that Padmé and Anakin met again after death, so Padmé is of course still part of the Force.
MinchD36 said:
there are contradictions like Luke Mother
It’s not a contradiction. Check out this video: https://youtu.be/7qH8m_zXRRg
Timothy Zahn Version of the Clone Wars
It’s not a contradiction. All the discrepancies between the Thrawn Trilogy and the Prequels have been explained by the pre-Disney Lucasfilm years ago. When Pellaeon talks about him remembering fighting Clones during the Clone Wars, he’s talking about the Battle of Seleucami from the Republic comics by Dark Horse. In the Seleucami arc, we see that the Separatist are trying to create an Army of Clones to fight the Republic, and that’s exactly what Pellaeon is referring to in the Thrawn Trilogy. Besides, when it’s stated that the Clones were the bad guys in the Thrawn Trilogy, they’re still talking about the Battle of Seleucami. So yeah, it’s not a contradiction. Sure, you can say that it’s a bit convoluted, but it’s not a total contradiction. The Thrawn Trilogy directly contradicts TCW, because in the show there’s no Battle of Seleucami and there are no Separatist Clones. But it doesn’t contradict the Clone Wars Multimedia Project and the Republic comics.
Sith becoming Force Ghosts
It’s not a contradiction with the Prequels. Sure, George Lucas stated that the Sith can’t become Force ghosts, but there’s nothing in the Prequels that suggests that. So no, it’s not a direct contradiction with the Prequel Trilogy.
Palpatine Resurrection the Prophecy of the Chosen One did not exist
You can come up with a billion possible explanations that can make the Chosen One Prophecy fit with Palpatine’s resurrection in Dark Empire. So no, it’s not a direct contradiction with the Prequels.
before 1999, Luke Jedi Order letting his Jedi get Married seems like this was something Normal with the Jedi before Lucas Prequels, Corellian Jedi,
Just because the Jedi had rules that forbade marriage in the Prequels doesn’t mean those rules always existed in the past and will always exist in the future. So no, it’s not a contradiction with the Prequels.
in Old Video Games like Dark Forces 1 and 2 or Shadows of the Empire the Empire seems to have ruled the Galaxy for more than 19 Years it doesnt look like the Prequels took place in the same Universe as those Games,
This is a purely subjective feeling, and it is not proof of any objective contradiction. Besides, in Shadows of the Empire, the Empire has been in control of the Galaxy for 25 years, not 19 years.
looks like Ashka Boda could have been the Leader of the Jedi Order before the Lucas Prequels and not Yoda or Mace Windu
Again, just because the Jedi had more rigid rules in the Prequels doesn’t mean they always had those rules. So again, it’s not a contradiction with the EU.
So…
Haven’t seen any of the other stuff, and I’m not even interested in doing so. To be honest, I’m not even interested in watching the third season of The Mandalorian. Also, the only series I include in my personal Canon is Clone Wars 2003. I take all the other series as fun things to watch, but disconnected from the main universe.
Aside from the previously mentioned removal of the first two prequels, I also removed everything between Episode III and Andor (because none of it matters and most of it sucks), as well as the sequel trilogy (because they seem to be preparing for a “clean slate” in a new galaxy that will allow them to ignore the sequels, and because the sequels suck).
Call me stupid, but I honestly prefer to watch two movies that last for two hours instead of watching an entire TV show. Not only because I don’t like TCW and like the first two Prequels, but also for a matter of time. I don’t know, maybe I’m the lazy one? But I honestly don’t want to spend days watching a TV show when I can just watch the entire Prequel Trilogy in six hours.
EDIT: Never mind
Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.
I don’t enjoy things in Star Wars based on whether it was Lucas’ vision or not. I just like the interpretation that Anakin’s fall was not the Jedi’s fault because I think it makes Vader a stronger villain.
Obviously I wasn’t talking about you, I was just making a more general speech. As far as I’m concerned, I prefer the idea that Anakin’s fall was kind of everyone’s fault. Not just the Jedi’s fault, or Anakin’s fault, or Palpatine’s fault, but a mixture of them all. I like to think that it was everyone’s fault and that it was, in a way, something destined to happen anyway, no matter if it was Anakin or another Jedi. It was destined to happen anyway, because it was necessary to destroy the Old Republic to later fixing things in the New Republic and improving the Jedi under Luke’s teachings, as shown in the EU. But I also respect your opinion on the subject, of course.
The Prequels are so bad at conveying what Lucas was really trying to convey that people keep making head canons and being so off the mark they’re basically turning them into entirely different movies.
And that’s why the Prequels are actually good. They’re so bad at conveying what Lucas was really trying to convey that they turn out being good, because what Lucas was really trying to convey is… bad.
I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.
For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.
In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.
The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.
George’s ideas morphed over time. But unlike Tolkien who loved the work, his languages, and spent time answering letters from fans… George seems to actively hate the fans who made the OOT a success, and doesn’t really like directing movies. The overall denial vibe is also very weird, but I think if the changes were any good people would complain a lot less. Instead it’s like he’s always working on a once classic car and all the tinkering is … well…
I agree. To be honest, I personally think George doesn’t understand what makes the fans like Star Wars. That’s why I basically ignore everything George says and why I base my Star Wars opinions on a Death of the Author point of view, rather than a Word of God point of view. In fact, it could even said that I like Star Wars despite of Lucas’ opinions, rather than because of them. For example, I absolutely hate Lucas’ ideas about attachment and about how the Force works, I find them to be very simplistic and boring. What keeps me from saying: “Well, perhaps Star Wars is not for me as a whole” are the alternative interpretation of these subjects given by the EU authors and characters, like Vergere’s philosophy about the Force and Luke’s ideas about attachment in the Jedi Academy Trilogy and The New Jedi Order. Besides, it’s absolutely impossible to find two quotes from George that don’t contradict each other, because the man changed his mind all the time. Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.
American and English movies:
Movies from my country and other countries:
Stargate SG-1, without a doubt.
Despite not liking the way they handled Sha’re’s death, I still liked the show up until Season 6. However, things started becoming really bad after they made Daniel Jackson become an Ascended being. The reveal that the Ancients and the Ascended beings are the same thing, the introduction of the Ori and the death of certain characters are all things that I would have avoided if I was in charge of the show.
So, these are my ideas to rewrite the show:
That’s all.
My (unpopular) ranking:
I know it’s a very unpopular take on the Indiana Jones movies, but I genuinely find Temple of Doom to be the most boring movie of the four. Last Crusade and Raiders of the Lost Ark are my favorites, and kingdom of the Crystal Skull is fun.
The Cosby Show is my favorite. I grew up with it, despite being born in 2001.
Star Trek TNG is my second favourite 80s show, though not my favorite Star Trek.
I just can’t watch almost any movie or TV show that was made after 2014, with only some, few exceptions. In my opinion, 2014 is when almost all movies and shows started sucking.
I love the comedy from the late 90s and early 2000s. The vulgarity and sexual jokes were almost always balanced, and never went too far as to become gross, unlike today. Furthermore, in the majority of cases, even when there was vulgarity in a movie, in the end the underlying message was always good and never too nihilistic, unlike today.
Anyone who dared speak ill of my supreme goddess Padmé will be punished for his insolence.
Anecdotally I know someone who just recently saw TCW and watching it made her like the PT less so than before. She’s not a hardcore fan, I introduced her to SW with the original 3 years ago and she slowly started liking the franchise more and more, but she’s definitely not a hardcore fan. She said the show feels like it takes place in a different universe from the movies, that Anakin is an entirely different character and that even if more likeable in the show, he seems even less torn or prone to falling to the dark side than his movie self. She said that Siege of Mandalore Anakin just doesn’t flow well into ROTS Anakin, and I find it hard to disagree with her.
That’s literally me!
I hate how people say because the new ones are so horrible, it makes the prequels good now. No… bad movies are still bad movies. If you genuinely like them(more power to you) then fine, I don’t agree but fine(who I am to tell you what to like), but the logic of bad sequels=good prequels just don’t make sense to me.
I don’t think that the Prequels are bad movies, I genuinely like them. But I totally agree with you on this. Actually - and I say it as a Prequel fan myself - I hate when people say that the Prequels are good exclusively because the Sequels are bad. It shows that you don’t really appreciate the movies, it just means that you are “forgiving” them because you think there are other movies that suck harder than them. Saying that the Prequels are good because the Sequels are bad is like saying: “Oh yeah, they suck, but they suck less than the Sequels.”
Anakin and Dormé (Padmé’s handmaiden) are actually siblings. Before she was sold as a slave, Shmi had a relationship with Dormé’s father and gave birth to Dormé herself. However, she was sold after that, so she never had the possibility of seeing them again, and could never find them again. A year after all of that, she gave birth to Anakin. Therefore, Anakin and Dormé were siblings who didn’t know to be siblings. This is perhaps the most crazy of my head-canons, and I admit it could feel a little stretched. But I love Rose Byrne, so I wanted to give her character a little more importance in the overall universe XD.
The despecialized version of Return of the Jedi fits better with the rest of the old EU than any of the subsequent Special Editions. I personally don’t like the idea of a victory celebration all across the Galaxy. As we know through the EU, the Battle of Endor didn’t mean the total defeat of the Empire in the entire Galaxy, but simply the turning point in the fight against the Empire. In fact, after Endor the Empire still had control of many of the most important planets, including Coruscant and Naboo. Thus, seeing a victory celebration on those two planets makes no sense, because they were still in Imperial hands and the Rebellion had not yet totally won the war. So, I think it would be better to circumscribe the celebration on Endor without showing any other celebration in the Galaxy. Therefore, Yub Nub is a necessary evil that I’m willing to accept for a matter of consistency with the rest of the EU.
- The Tales of the Jedi comics happen. After the end of the comics, there are several millennia of peace and prosperity in the Republic, until 2000 BBY.
- In 2000 BBY the Mandalorian Wars take place. The reasons of why the Mandalorian Wars happen are the same reasons of why they happened in the original Knights of the Old Republic lore, before The Old Republic MMO retconned everything. The major events of the Mandalorian Wars are the same that are described in the Knights of the Old Republic comics. However, Cassus Fett is replaced with a new character, as my Old Republic head-canon (just like my Prequel rewrite) respects Boba Fett’s pre-Prequel backstory, and so the Fett family doesn’t exist as such.
- After the end of the Mandalorian Wars, Revan and Malak fall to the Dark Side, revive the Sith cult and unleash the Jedi Civil War. The following events are similar to those described in the first Knights of the Old Republic game. However, the Jedi are more similar to the Jedi from the Tales of the Jedi comics, and look nothing like the Jedi from Lucas’ Prequels. Apart from this, Revan and Malak’s story is similar to what’s depicted in the first KOTOR. So, we still have Bastila and the other characters, Malak is still defeated, Revan is still redeemed, etc.
- After Revan’s redemption, the Republic continues to fight against the remnants of the New Sith Empire founded by Revan. The war goes on until 1000 BBY, when the Sith are definitively defeated in the Battle of Russan. However, a Sith survived the battle, and this Sith is Bane. So, after the defeat of the old Sith, Bane created the Rule of Two, established the use of the Darth title (which didn’t exist before him) and also established the red lightsaber rule for the Sith.
Since I have completely abandoned my plans to rewrite the Prequel Trilogy and the Old Republic, this head-canon must be changed.
I currently accept the Old Republic Era the way it’s portrayed in the already established EU timeline. However, I keep the changes regarding the Darth title and red lightsabers. So, every Sith prior to Darth Bane never used the Darth title, and there wasn’t the rule to use a red lightsaber. Both these things were created by Darth Bane itself. That is, everything happened in the same way as in the already established EU timeline, but the historical archives of the Galactic Alliance contain some small inaccuracies. Therefore, what’s depicted in KOTOR/SWTOR is extremely accurate and reflects what really happened, except for the Sith aesthetics. Due to this small inaccuracies, the galactic historians use the Darth title to describe the pre-Banite Sith an depict them as using red lightsabers, when they actually looked more like the Sith from the Tales of the Jedi comics. This explains why in the KOTOR games, in SWTOR and in their tie-in material we see the Sith looking like the Sith from the PT, when they actually didn’t look like that. In the real universe the Sith look from the Prequels was born with Bane and died with Sidious, after which there were no more Sith (as my head-canon universe ends with the NJO series anyway).
I can’t open the links, it tells me I have to log in. But I’m curious to watch this. Is there another link I can use?
No, you’re not the only one. I totally agree with you. It was stupid. In the Clone Wars Multimedia Project there wasn’t any chip, and it was done Better.
Unfortunately by living in Italy we had limited access to more niche SW literature, by the time TCW’s movie/series arrived they started catching up, but before it was a mess, i bought some republic commando and yuuzhan vong saga novels out of desperation one summer in 2006 when i went to the UK for vacation.
How did they put it in the multimedia project?
I’m Italian too and I understand you perfectly, in our country It’s very difficult to find Star Wars books, because publishers are lazy and never translate anything. Anyway, in the Multimedia Project the Clones were genetically engineered to obey every order without question, just as it’s established in Attack of the Clones, therefore 99.9% of regular Clones obeyed Order 66. However, Clones of higher rank such as Commandos and ARC troopers were more independent than regular Clones, and had the ability to disobey orders. It was necessary to make them more independent than regular Clones, because the kind of missions they were designed to participate in required more independence and free thinking. In fact, most of these Clones obeyed Order 66, but there were also many cases of desertion.
