Spartacus01

Vladius said:

You can probably glean this from all my other posts across the site, but the most damaging parts of the prequel/EU/Filoni system involve the portrayal of the Jedi, dark Jedi, Sith, the Force, and the dark side.
“Gray Jedi”, “balance in the Force”, “using both sides of the Force”, “J’edaii” or whatever they’re called (also “Jensaarai” lol) the “light side” and “dark side” being equal and neither good or evil, Mortis BS, etc.

There’s exactly one YouTube channel (Geetsly’s) I’ve found that has a correct perspective on all of this, and every video that talks about it is swamped with the most cringey fanfic-tier comments about how both sides are wrong and UMM ACTUALLY THE JJ’EEDAIII (whose name those stupid Jedi freaks STOLE) WERE PERFECTLY BALANCED and if you went too far to one side they would banish you to the opposite moon until you got BALANCED again. Revan and Anakin and my OC Darklight Lightdarker can use the LightDark DarkLight GrayDark GrayLight LightLight DarkDark Side with no ill effects because they’re emotionally BALANCED.

This started with the prequels but EU writers and Dave Filoni made it much worse by making it canon depending on the story.

I think that you have the wrong perception of how the EU depicted the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force. So, I would like to make some corrections.

In the EU, the word “Grey Jedi” was not used to describe Force users who use both sides of the Force at the same time. On the contrary, it was used to describe those members of the Jedi Order who, despite not using the Dark Side, at the same time don’t always followed the rules, and don’t always listened to the will of the Council. The word was used to describe the more rebellious members of the Jedi Order, and was never associated with the Dark Side of the Force. Never. And, it’s not like the word was often used, anyway. In fact, it was only used a couple of times through the entire EU. Furthermore, even though the Je’daii Order existed, and even though they tried to create a literal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side, it was strongly implied that their ways were wrong, precisely because you can’t balance the Dark Side with the Light Side. In fact, the Je’daii Order fell apart.

When the EU was still Cannon, the Light Side was always considered as the true balance and the true natural state of the Force, and it was always explained that the Dark Side corrupts everything. Yes, some attitudes of the Jedi Order (and some individual Jedi) were criticized, especially during the Prequel era, but the Light Side in itself was never criticized, and being overly-attached was always seen as something negative that could lead to the Dark Side, even in Luke’s Jedi Order. Hell, in the Darth Plagueis novel, it was literally explained that Anakin was created by the Force as an automatic reaction, in order to stop the Sith from corrupting the Force itself. So, it was always implied that the Sith should be destroyed, because they corrupt the Force and create unnatural stuff, indeed.

It’s the New Canon the one that introduced the concept of “equal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side”, not the EU. The EU always depicted the Dark Side as a cancer, and in all the stories that featured Force users who tried to balance the two sides, it was always implied that they were wrong. The problem is, though, that a lot of people on the internet don’t understand this, because they don’t actually experience the EU first hand. They just learn stuff from other people telling them, and from YouTubers who understand nothing about the EU themselves. And, because of this, we have people using the word “Grey Jedi” in the wrong way, and who unironically think that the Je’daii Order was correct, when they never managed to maintain the balance they wanted to maintain, precisely because such balance doesn’t exist.

Finally, this has nothing to do with the EU, but I wanted to point it out anyway. The Mortis arc in The Clone Wars was created by Lucas, not Filoni.

Edit: When I talk about the EU, I’m not including TCW into it. Yes, the first 6 seasons of the show are technically part of both Legends and Canon, but I prefer not to include TCW into the Legends timeline when discussing it. I see the show as being part of Disney’s New Canon only. The EU version of the Clone Wars is the one that was depicted in the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, while the Canon version is the one that was depicted in TCW. I prefer to maintain them as separate.

JadedSkywalker said:

Basically for me the EU ends with the Thrawn Duology. I like Ben Skywalker, and Luke and Mara getting together but everything else i pretty much hate. Was the Bantam era perfect far from it. Still prefer it over Del Rey, Superweapon of the week and all.

In my opinion, ending the EU with the Hand of Thrawn Duology can be a respectable choice, but I personally don’t agree with it. While I don’t like what they did with the NJO and subsequent works, at the same time I also want to see Luke at the head of a functioning Jedi Academy, and what they did in the Jedi Academy Trilogy was not enough for me. So, I prefer to end my personal EU timeline with the Young Jedi Knights series. The plots developed in that series are pretty good, the power levels are not absurd, and the Galaxy is at peace at the end of the story, with the clear implication that the new generation of Jedi will eventually replace the old, and will help to maintain peace and justice throughout the Galaxy for several millennia.

I suppose I’m the only one who also accepts the post-1999 EU? Well, even though I still don’t like anything set after the Young Jedi Knights series. Lol.

Can I have a link?

Vladius said:

NFBisms said:

In junction with what I’m saying though, it’s more like - I’m personally not a stoic buddhist, so that’s where I would disagree with Lucas’ admiration of those ideas in his work. At the very least, would be disinterested in it. If an audience is discomforted with detachment valued in that way, I do think there is space left by Lucas to feel that - you just wouldn’t be a Jedi in his world.

And again, this is where I feel like it’s always discussed so binarily - as “good” and “bad” interpretations. Flawed institutions, unwieldy pedagogy, and slavish dogma, etc. can be separate case study in the work from philosophical beliefs. It’s not contradictory for Lucas to posit those things and still come out believing Jedi are good. But could they be Good in the time/space he depicted? Exploring what can go wrong with tangible incidence, is not the same as exploring what is wrong with abstract ideas. And we always keep circling back to confusion over that messiness, when the messiness is almost the point. It’s war and politics considered over serial adventure, we’ve always known that, it comes with the territory.

But beyond that, the OT has the focused thematic answers from those questions one would be looking for anyway. Luke Skywalker has friends he cares about and succeeds through the love of a son to his father. You couldn’t be a prequel Jedi, but detachment is considered with far more balance with the whole saga in mind.

Anakin didn’t have to be a Jedi and he certainly didn’t have to stay a Jedi; if he really wanted to quit to be with Padme he could have. Most Catholics and Buddhists are not monks or nuns and it’s not a requirement for anyone to be.

In Legends (specifically, in the comic adaptation of Attack of the Clones), Anakin actually wanted to leave the Jedi Order for Padmé. However, she told him that it was his duty to protect the Galaxy and help the Republic in the war. So, Anakin wanted to leave the Order to stay with Padmé from day one, but Padmé’s pressure and his own sense of duty towards the Republic prevented him from doing that, at least until the end of the Clone Wars. Also, every time I watch the Prequel Trilogy, it always gives me the impression that Anakin wanted to leave the Jedi Order after the end of the war and the victory of the Republic. Yes, it was never clearly stated in the movies, but I’ve always taken it for granted, even before finding out that it was openly stated in the old Expanded Universe.

Anyway, I think that, even though Lucas’ opinions have to be taken into account, it doesn’t mean that you have to agree with him 100%, even when it comes to the Jedi. In fact, the Expanded Universe writers portrayed attachment as a dangerous thing that can lead to the Dark Side, just like Lucas said. But at the same time, they also explained that a Jedi can be married and have a family without being overly-attached to his partner or his family. For example, here there is a quote from Ben Skywalker:

“That’s what attachment is, isn’t it?” Ben [Skywalker] began pacing again, and words finally poured from him like water running through a shattered dam. "It’s not loving somebody. It’s not marrying somebody. It’s not having kids. It’s being where, if something goes wrong, there’s nothing left of you. It’s where, if she goes away, you start functioning like a droid with a restraining bolt installed. Mom wouldn’t want you to be this way. So why are you?”
(Legacy of the Force: Fury, by Aaron Allston)

So, you can agree with Lucas on the dangers of being overly-attached to someone, but also disagree with him on the notion that the Jedi need to be celibate in order not to be overly-attached. And I personally am of the opinion that Lucas himself would not care if you disagree with him about that. I mean, he clearly shared this same point of view before the completion of the Prequel Trilogy. In fact, he was heavily involved in the development of the New Jedi Order series, and gave the authors of the novels a lot of input on how the Force works, what means to be a Jedi, etc.

We all know that the Jedi rules are quite different in the New Jedi Order, even though the basic policy about attachment remained the same. And given that Lucas himself - at first - approved the idea of the Jedi being married in the New Jedi Order, I think that he would not blame you for thinking that the Jedi can be married and have families, even though he doesn’t share this point of view anymore. If you told Lucas: “Hey George, I agree with you about the dangers of being overly-attached to someone, but I’m of the opinion that a Jedi doesn’t necessarily have to be celibate in order to avoid that danger”, then I think that he himself would tell you something like: “Well, I think that the important thing is to be aware of the dangers of attachment. Everything else doesn’t matter”.

My personal Star Trek Canon consists of the following:

• Star Trek: Enterprise
• Star Trek: The Original Series
• Star Trek: The Motion Picture
• Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
• Star Trek: The Search for Spock
• Star Trek: The Voyage Home
• Star Trek: The Final Frontier
• Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country
• Star Trek: The Next Generation
• Star Trek: Generations
• Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
• Star Trek: Voyager
• Star Trek: First Contact
• Star Trek: Insurrection
• Star Trek: Nemesis

Any other Star Trek movie or series is just fanfiction.

Edit: In my initial version of the post, I didn’t include The Motion Picture, The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country, and Nemesis. But lately, I have decided to take a more “mainstream” approach by including all the movies from the TOS/TNG era, so I edited the post. Therefore, the exchange of opinions that I had with BedeHistory731 in the next two posts is not valid anymore.

I’m not entirely against the idea of bringing Darth Maul back from the dead. However, I don’t like the way it was portrayed in TCW.

In my opinion, it doesn’t make much sense to bring Maul back during the Clone Wars era. No one mentions him in Revenge of the Sith. No one mentions the fact that he is still alive and is now ruling over Mandalore, although it should be an important thing. So, talking from an in-universe perspective, you can reasonably assume that no one had any clue of the fact that he was still alive by the time of Revenge of the Sith. Therefore, if you want to bring him back so badly, you should do that after Revenge of the Sith itself.

If I want a good story where Darth Maul comes back, I prefer to read the Old Wounds comic. It makes much more sense, because it happens after the end of the Clone Wars themselves, and it’s a side story that doesn’t have any impact on what came before and after it. And, even though it was technically never considered Canon to begin with, it can actually fit perfectly in the same universe with the Prequel Trilogy and the Clone Wars Multimedia Project. So yeah, Old Wounds is superior to TCW, in my opinion.

Superweapon VII said:

Ventress’ backstory in the Clone Wars multimedia project > Ventress’ backstory in TCW.

IMO, anything from the Clone Wars Multimedia Project >>> Anything from TCW

I’m really tired about people simping over Obi-Wan. I’m tired of hearing people talk about how great Obi-Wan is, how e is the best Jedi who ever lived, etc. Don’t get me wrong, I like the Prequel Trilogy, and Obi-Wan is one of my favorite characters. He was a good person and a good Jedi, and was pretty powerful. But the level of simping that some fans have towards his character nowadays is just beyond ridiculous. He is not a flawless character by any means (like anyone in Star Wars, by the way), and people should really stop viewing him as such.

Edit: Wrong thread

The Jedi were hesitant to train Anakin, because he was attached to his mother, he missed her. And the Jedi, being against attachment and being used to start training children at a much younger age, just felt hesitant to train Anakin. That’s it. No further explanation is needed, everything is already explained in The Phantom Menace. Furthermore, the fact that Sidious and Plagueis were involved in Anakin’s creation was confirmed in the Legends novel Darth Plagueis. However, in the novel it is explained that it wasn’t something that they did voluntarily. Rather, the Force created Anakin as an automatic reaction to their unnatural experiments with the midi-chlorians. Basically, the Force was “pissed off” at the Sith because they were manipulating the Force itself, so it created Anakin to stop themm.

9/11 happened in my birth year.

Vladius said:

NFBisms said:

Vladius said:
What I mainly don’t like is all the insane real world baggage that gets dragged into it. The Jedi are like an ascetic Buddhist FBI that is also a fourth branch of government and also the leaders of the military and also diplomats and also bodyguards. The Republic is the Roman Republic but it’s also the United States during the Civil War and also the United States in modern times. The Senate is the Roman Senate and also the United Nations times a million. The enemies of the Republic are the Confederates from the Civil War and also modern international megacorporations. Anakin has aspects of Christ but is not perfect like Christ and ends up being the Antichrist.
All of the religion and philosophy in Star Wars is both Christian and Buddhist, Western and Eastern, per Lucas. Which means that it has both traditional good and evil, and suggestions of Yin and Yang “balance” stuff, without distinguishing between the two.
This all leads to confusion and really, really, really bad takes from fans about what it all means. Stuff like you should be equally good and evil, or that Anakin committing genocide on the Jedi was good and they deserved it. And then you have a bunch of EU writers, Disney writers, and Dave Filoni encouraging this.

I think this is actually the strength of the prequels as they are IMO.

Lucas challenges preconceptions of The Story with every subsequent movie starting from “I am your father” in ESB; where the PT contradicts the OT is intentionally in conversation. To me, what’d even be the point of these if the story were only the genre tropes and archetypes we could extrapolate from the OT? The “insane” real world baggage is what makes them worth handling in detail at all. It moves the needle from fairy tale to mythology. It’s not meant to be instructive.

Whatever analogues are in that mix shouldn’t be 1:1, otherwise then we would just be talking about Catholicism. Falling in line to real life historical or contemporary example is a hacky commentative form anyway; the only reality that demands consistency in fictional worldbuilding are the sociological and theoretical mechanics. Any philosophy or culture can be made up in that context, and should. That allows space to work with empathy / thought that real world sensitivities make difficult. If you’re looking for specific analogy, of course it’s incoherent. Of course all of this couldn’t really exist. But the exercise is about how something works, not what they are.

Your mileage may vary on what the difference is, but to articulate how I see the difference: Lucas isn’t writing about the United States or Christianity (just as examples). He’d be writing about hegemonic imperialism and the sociology of principled beliefs. From there your personal engagement is your personal engagement. The murkiness of What It All Means™ is a feature not a bug. I like that we can all have different perspectives about it.

My problem is the lack of different perspectives. The orthodox fan view right now is that the light side = no emotions, the dark side = strong emotions, and the gray side = emotions in check. The Jedi are a cult who kidnaps and brainwashes children into having no emotions. When you force people to have no emotions, the Freudian id takes over and makes them turn to the dark side and snap and commit mass murder, and that’s your fault. For these fans (most of them online), there is no other perspective. There’s no dialogue or moral ambiguity. They took black and white, introduced “gray”, then called the gray white and everything else black.
Never mind that gray is nonsensical and involves being half good and half evil. You can have a little bit of turning into a gray-skinned yellow-eyed genocidal cyborg monster, as a treat. (This is how they describe Anakin in the Ahsoka show.)
It’s blatantly false both in and out of universe, but there is no disagreement about it. This is the consensus. In Dave Filoni shows and other stuff, it’s canon. There’s no broader discussion of Christianity and Buddhism or exactly WHY monks do what they do. It’s all judged through the lens of 21st century hyper-individualistic modern western culture where everything is about sex and doing what you want, when you want, screw everyone else.

I don’t want to play the part of the devil’s advocate, but can you really blame the fans for this? I think that Lucas is to blame, not the fans. In the Prequels there is no indication whatsoever that the Jedi philosophy is not based on suppressing emotions. On the contrary, every time we see the Jedi do or say something in the Prequels, you always get the impression that repressing emotions is exactly what they do. Add to that the fact that the Jedi forbid marriage and romantic relationships, and you have the perfect formula for misunderstanding. If Lucas was not able to properly convey his message, then it’s not the fault of the fans, it’s Lucas’s fault. And even if Lucas had succeeded in conveying his message correctly, it doesn’t mean that people should not be contrary to the Jedi philosophy, because you can still be contrary to the idea of celibacy. I’m a collectivist and an anti-individualist myself, but I’m still contrary to celibacy.

It doesn’t bother me that the Jedi are portrayed as a bureaucratic institution tied to the Republic’s government. It doesn’t bother me that they are portrayed as a centralized Order that has a unified philosophy. It doesn’t bother me that all Jedi are military leaders during the Clone Wars. What bothers me is the fact that they are portrayed as an Order that encourages celibacy and abstinence, and forbids romantic relationships and marriage. Personally, I think that one of the biggest reasons of why people don’t really like the Prequel Jedi is because they forbid marriage. Most people are against forbidding such a thing, as everyone considers marriage and romantic love as something natural. Plus, the Original Trilogy itself never implied that the Jedi forbade such things.

The same can be applied to the “Jedi must begin training at a young age” thing. I mean… Okay, the Original Trilogy implies that the Jedi begin to be trained at a young age, but there is a difference between starting to train a Jedi at a young age and having him join the Order as soon as he is born. The fact that Yoda said Luke was “too old” to be trained does not imply that Luke should have started training as soon as he was born. You could find a middle ground and say that the Jedi are usually brought into the Order when they are 14 years old, or something. This way, Yoda’s statement would have made sense anyway, since Luke was 22 years old at the time.

If Lucas had retained the bureaucratic and centralized aspects of the Jedi Order without introducing the rules about marriage and training at a young age, and had found another reason to make Anakin fall to the Dark Side other than attachment, then I believe that no one would ever think of saying that the Jedi are bad. Plus, not introducing the Chosen One Prophecy and the Balance of the Force would have avoided a lot of confusion about how the Force really works, and would have made things like the return of the Sith after Episode VI to be perfectly acceptable.

Vladius said:

This is the fantasy I always have in my head. I really hate arguing with people about the prequel Jedi, balance in the Force, gray Jedi, Mortis, etc. when none of that crap existed before 1999. Jedi were so much more interesting. They could wear whatever they liked, go wherever they liked, serve causes they wanted to serve, could have families and children. They were much more like feudal knights or samurai. You could easily imagine different factions of Jedi, differing takes on Jedi philosophy and the Force, and non-Sith Jedi villains like C’baoth. There was no Chosen One prophecy, so Luke’s adventures after RotJ were just as eventful and important as anything before.

People who are into the prequel Jedi are easily impressed by what they think is Lucas subtly criticizing problems that he made up. They have no concept that their ideas are stuck in a box when compared with all the possibilities that were getting explored pre-1999. Even KOTOR takes the wild and crazy Tales of the Jedi era and crams prequel Jedi into it.

I do think Palpatine was intended to be a Sith, though. Once the Sith and the concept of Sith Lords existed, I’m fairly certain that Vader and Palpatine were integrated into it.

Even though I am a Prequel fan, I pretty much agree with this. I, too, would have preferred if the Jedi were depicted like in the pre-1999 EU, especially like in the Tales of the Jedi comics. No Chosen Ones, no Balance of the Force, no strict rules against marriage and romance in general, and no Mortis. Like, I don’t mind the Jedi being depicted as a centralized Order who participated in the Clone Wars, had a unified philosophy and served the Republic, but I think that the rule against marriage and the Chosen One Prophecy shouldn’t have been introduced, and that they should have found another cause for Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side. Without the Chosen One thing, the Balance of the Force and the rule against marriage and romance, I think that the Force and the Jedi in general would be way less controversial today.

First things first, I want to start with some positivity. I think that the characters are likeable and relatable, and I think that the stories are very entertaining. I’m able to enjoy every single episode, even the more childish episodes from the first season. Everything about this show is just so likeable, and I absolutely love watching it. It makes me smile every time. The show will always have a special place in my heart, because it was the first Star Wars show I have watched after watching the main films. It will always bring back very good memories. However, even though I like the show very much, and even though I think that the show is good in itself, I don’t think it fits very well with the Star Wars universe as a whole, and I really can’t manage to see it as part of the actual Star Wars universe. Let me explain why.

First of all, I don’t think that Anakin’s portrayal in the show can be reconciled with his portrayal in the Prequel Trilogy. It’s not that I don’t like the character per se, it’s just that he is not Anakin Skywalker. I can’t reconcile his portrayal in the Prequels with his portrayal in TCW, they feel like very different characters to me. In order to stay more in line with what’s depicted in the films, TCW’s portrayal of Anakin should have been a mixture between Anakin from Attack of the Clones and Anakin from Revenge of the Sith. Then, they should have made him mature and become more and more like Anakin from the beginning of Revenge of the Sith as the series progressed. Instead, they just portrayed him as Anakin from Revenge of the Sith from the very beginning. And this, in my opinion, is not very believable.

Sure, I know that Anakin was not always likable in the Prequel Trilogy. But, showing how he went from the unlikable guy we see in Attack of the Clones to the likable guy we see at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith would have been more impactful. Instead, they just showed him as a likable guy from the beginning. Which, again, is not a bad thing per se, but is not consistent with what is shown in the Prequel Trilogy. Just like Luke Skywalker from the Sequel Trilogy can be described as Jake Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker from TCW can be described as Aniken Skywoka. Not to mention, Mat Lanter’s voice doesn’t resemble Hayden Christensen’s voice at all, and this makes the character feel even more like a totally different character than the one we see in the Prequel Trilogy.

I personally think that Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars series did a better job with Anakin. In the first episodes of Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars, Anakin is portrayed more similarly to how he was portrayed in Attack of the Clones. But, after receiving the rank of Jedi Knight, he becomes more confident and more heroic, and in the last episodes he is depicted more similarly to how he was depicted at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith, he is more calm, more heroic and less whiny. Anakin’s evolution in the original Clone Wars series was more linear and more in line with what is shown in the Prequel Trilogy, and it worked way better, in my opinion. Again, I’m not saying that Anakin’s portrayal in TCW is bad per se, I’m just saying that he doesn’t seem like the same character that we see in the Prequels, and that we needed proper context, and a progressive character evolution.

Other than Anakin’s portrayal, another thing I don’t really like about the show is the very fact that Anakin has a padawan. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Ahsoka is a bad character, I have nothing against the character in itself. All I’m saying is, she should not have been Anakin’s padawan, because the idea of Anakin having a padawan does not fit very well with the Prequel Trilogy, in my opinion. In fact, when you watch the Prequel Trilogy, you never, ever get the impression that Anakin could have had a padawan between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. Never. In Revenge of the Sith, the notion that Anakin had a padawan is not even alluded to, by anyone. And it wouldn’t make any sense not to mention it, because having an apprentice is a pretty important thing. After all, we are talking about Anakin Skywalker, The Hero With No Fear, the Chosen One of the Jedi Order, and the literal protagonist of the Prequel Trilogy itself. The fact that he had a padawan should be an important element story-wise, and you would expect it to be mentioned. So, talking from an in-universe perspective, you can reasonably assume that, by the time of Revenge of the Sith, no one had any clue of the fact that Anakin had a padawan during the Clone Wars, not even Anakin himself. Therefore, I think that trying to retroactively insert Ahsoka as Anakin’s padawan feels pretty stretched. It doesn’t work very well, in my opinion. It would have made far more sense if Ahsoka was Plo Koon’s padawan, and only appeared in the episodes where Plo Koon was involved.

Other than Ahsoka being Anakin’s apprentice, I also don’t like the way they portrayed General Grievous. I’m perfectly aware that George Lucas wanted the character to be more cartoonish, and I’m perfectly aware that it would be unrealistic to expect Grievous to be portrayed in the same way he was portrayed in the original Clone Wars cartoon. But, I’m of the opinion that there is always a limit, and there is always a middle ground. A character can have cartoonish trades, and still feel intimidating. Instead, the writers just portrayed Grievous as totally incompetent and coward, without any badass quality whatsoever. In my opinion, an ideal portrayal of the character should have been a mixture between Grievous from the 2003 series and Grievous from Revenge of the Sith. This way, he could have been portrayed as competent and efficient, but also as a cartoonish villain who runs away when his plans fail.

Another thing that felt unnecessary was Darth Maul’s return. But, I don’t want you to get me wrong. Actually, I have nothing against the idea of Darth Maul coming back from the dead. What doesn’t work, in my opinion, is making him to be active during the Clone Wars era. No one mentions him in Revenge of the Sith. No one mentions the fact that he is still alive and is now ruling over Mandalore, although it should be an important thing. So, talking from an in-universe perspective, you can reasonably assume that no one had any clue of the fact that he was still alive by the time of Revenge of the Sith. Therefore, if you want to bring him back so badly, you should do that after Revenge of the Sith itself, not before.

The old Expanded Universe writers understood this, and when they brought Maul back from the dead in the Old Wounds comic, they made the comic itself to happen after Revenge of the Sith. In that comic, it is explained that Darth Maul wanted to get revenge, so he searched for Obi-Wan the entire time, but without managing to approach him (given that he was always on the move, especially during the Clone Wars). Then, he found Obi-Wan on Tatooine, had a duel with him, and was killed by Owen. That story is a self-contained story, that has no impact on anything that came before and after it, and it’s the best way they could have broth Darth Maul back from the dead. And, even though it was technically never considered Canon to begin with, it can perfectly fit with the Prequel Trilogy.

So, I’m not against the idea of bringing Darth Maul back, but they shouldn’t have made him to be active during the Clone Wars, because it feels pretty stretched, especially because no one mentions him in Revenge of the Sith, although he should be mentioned. If they wanted to have a powerful Dark Side user who controlled a criminal syndicate and took control of an entire planet, then it would have been better to use Savage Opress instead of Maul. They should have just given to Savage the role that Maul fulfilled in the show. Sure, I know that it was George Lucas who wanted Maul to be active during the Clone Wars, but this doesn’t matter. The idea of him being active during the Clone Wars era still feels stretched, and still doesn’t work with the Prequel Trilogy, in my opinion

Finally (and I know that this is a pretty hot take), I don’t like the way they portrayed the Clones. In Attack of the Clones, it is established that the Clones are genetically engineered soldiers, who obey any order without question. The Clones are not portrayed as individual, emotional creatures in the films, and in my opinion the writers of the show should have stayed faithful to the way the Clones were portrayed in the films. This way, there wouldn’t have been any need to introduce the inhibitor chips, and the majority of the Clones would have obeyed Order 66 just because they were ordered to do so by the Supreme Chancellor. It would have been more faithful to what’s depicted in the films, and in my opinion it would have been way more impactful. In fact, it would have added even more complexity to the Clones. If the Clones are portrayed as genetically engineered soldiers who obey any order, this could have allowed the audience to see how evil the Sith were, given that they were the ones who ordered the creation of the Clone Army in the first place. Moreover, it would have allowed the audience to see how much corrupt the Republic was, given that absolutely no one in the Senate was against the idea of using a slave army of biological, emotionless robots. It would have added a lot more depth to the Prequel era as a whole. Of course, I’m not saying that I hate the way they portrayed the Clones in TCW, I’m just saying that I would have preferred if they stayed fateful to what’s depicted in the films.

All in all, I think that the show is fine in itself. As I said at the beginning, I think it is very entertaining and enjoyable. But I tend to view it more as a “what if” universe that is disconnected from the main universe, because I don’t feel it fits very well with the universe that is established in the films.

My personal Canon has changed. After several months, I have abandoned my Legends purism, and I have decided to include what I think it is the best material from Disney’s New Canon. Besides, I have decided to eliminate the stories I actually never cared about in the first place. So, here’s my updated personal Canon:

• Tales of the Jedi (comics)
• Knights of the Old Republic (comics)
• Knights of the Old Republic I
• Knights of the Old Republic II
• The Darth Bane Trilogy
• Darth Plagueis (novel)
• The Aurorient Express
• Last Stand on Ord Mantell
• Republic comics (from Issue 1 to 6)
• Jedi Council: Acts of War
• Cloak of Deception
• Star Wars: Darth Maul (comics)
• Episode I: The Phantom Menace
• Jango Fett: Open Seasons
• Republic comics (from issue 7 to 49)
• Episode II: Attack of the Clones
• Republic Commando (video game)
• Republic Commando (novel series)
• The Clone Wars (2002 video game)
• Republic comics (from issue 50 to 83)
• Star Wars: Jedi (comic series)
• Star Wars: General Grievous (comics)
• Star Wars: Jedi Trial
• Star Wars: Obsession (comics)
• Star Wars: Brothers in Arms
• Labyrinth of Evil
• Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
• Dark Lord: The Rise oninthf Darth Vader
• Star Wars: Purge (comic series)
• Star Wars: Dark Times (series)
• Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison
• Darth Vader and the Ninth Assassin
• Darth Vader and the Cry of Shadows
• Star Wars: Andor
• Star Wars: Empire (comic series)
• Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
• Episode IV: A New Hope (despecialized)
• Star Wars: Rebellion (comic series)
• Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
• Shadows of the Empire
• Mara Jade: By the Emperor’s Hand
• Episode VI: Return of the Jedi (despecialized)
• Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor
• The Courtship of Princess Leia
• Tatooine Ghost
• The Thrawn Trilogy
• Dark Empire (first comic)
• The Jedi Academy Trilogy
• The Hand of Thrawn Duology
• Star Wars: Union (comics)
• Junior Jedi Knights (series)
• Young Jedi Knights (series)

I decided that my personal Canon will end with the Young Jedi Knights series. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t despise the New Jedi Order series, I don’t hate it. But ending the universe with the Young Jedi Knights series is more satisfying, because you can imagine a bright, peaceful future for the New Republic, Luke and his new Order of Jedi Knights, a future that doesn’t involve another great galactic conflict and trillions of deaths. Again, I don’t despise the New Jedi Order, but Young Jedi Knights is a better finale, in my opinion. Furthermore, even though I really enjoy the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon, I have decided that it will not be part of my Canon anymore, because I have come to accept the fact that it just cannot be taken seriously, mostly due to the exaggerated, over-the-top powers that were shown on screen. Mace Windu destroying an entire army of droids with his bare hands is… kind of ridiculous, and does not stylistically fit with the rest of the old Clone Wars run.

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

‘Star Wars: De-Incest Edition’

Leia is not Luke’s brother- snip out all the pieces of dialogue that say so.

At the top of my head only includes: Some of the stuff Ghost Obi-Wan tells Luke on Dagobah, some of what Luke says to Leia on Endor, and the baby Leia in Episode III (which I know isn’t OT, but still).

None of this would diminish Leia’s role in any of the films and would remove the incest-y details.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to just remove the kiss in ESB? This way, there isn’t incest and you don’t need to modify nothing but a single scene.

Nilbog said:

If starting from scratch: I’d use George Lucas’ story treatments.

Nah, they are terrible.

I perfer the PT lightsaber duels over the OT lightsaber duels.

I personally don’t like the idea. I think that Canon and Legends should stay separate. If someone wants to create a head-canon in which he mixes some Canon stories and some Legends stories, then that’s fine, but to take the two universes as a whole and try to merge them is a bad idea, in my opinion.

TiiN said:

RogueLeader said:

I don’t remember if it was someone here or on YouTube, but someone achieved this exact idea before, so it is definitely doable without voice Ai or anything.

EDIT: I did find a version of this idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GvpT_7BMAc

I can remember to this edit. The editing is nice and the idea is good.

But when Padme no longer has any meaning for him, why he ask about her?

I’ll quote myself:

The idea is that Vader’s reasoning is more or less like this: “Is she alive? Then I’ll keep her at my side and force her to agree with me. Is she dead? Then I can do without her.” Indeed, we see Vader reasoning like this already when he is on Mustafar, when he tells Padmé to join him and basically has no problem choking her. The Dark Side has twisted his mind so much that he no longer sees Padmé as a person, but as a mere object that he can use the way he sees fit.

Anakin and Aayla Secura would make a nice couple.

One of the most popular criticisms of the Prequels is that “George Lucas can’t write romantic dialogue and can’t create well-written love stories.” And while I partially agree with this criticism, I personally don’t see it as black and white as the majority of Prequel critics view it. Personally, I think that Anakin and Padmé’s love story has everything necessary to be a very compelling and well-written love story, it just needs to be refined and trimmed. The proof of this is the fact that you don’t need to rewrite the entire love story to make it work, you just have to create simple fan edits. And you don’t even need to modify the majority of the romantic scenes, you just need to modify a couple of scenes in order to make the love story to be more fluid, compelling, and likable. If Anakin and Padmé’s love story was bad at its core, then creating fan edits would not improve it at all. But that’s not the case, and creating fan edits is more than enough to improve it. This, in my opinion, proves that George Lucas is not entirely bad at writing love stories. He has the basics, he just needs someone else to refine what he has done.

RogueLeader said:

I don’t remember if it was someone here or on YouTube, but someone achieved this exact idea before, so it is definitely doable without voice Ai or anything.

EDIT: I did find a version of this idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GvpT_7BMAc

The scene is very good, but unfortunately the music is not the same, so I don’t think this scene could be used in an actual edit. We would need to change the whole score.